tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-86836382581694998872024-03-13T11:04:05.966-07:00Christian-Muslim-atheist Chat DebatesHogan Elijah Hagbardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06715947713008941795noreply@blogger.comBlogger1125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8683638258169499887.post-89978429298864876502010-04-08T12:40:00.000-07:002010-04-08T12:53:33.514-07:00Dialogue with the atheist Paltalkrider: Atheism is absence of belief in Humans<strong>This is my chat-debate with a core atheist who calls himself paltalkrider. <br /><br />After five minutes our atheist friend was crushed into a corner. His main argument seemed to conclude that theism is evil since evil has been committed by religion. <br /><br />When I began challenging him with the fact that most of the attrocities of the last century was committed by atheists such as Stalin, Mao and the regime of North Korea, I realised to my shock that Paltalkrider considered these regimes theistic since they follow human leaders. <br /><br />This was obvioulsy an attempt to escape the embarresment of atheism to have failed entirely to create a human utopia. <br /><br />So lets get this right, the atheism philosophy is no longer just absense of faith as they so frequently exclaim, now atheism incorporates not just the spiritual but also the physical realm. Theism has become a devotion to a human being and his philosphy and atheism is also an absense to trust and follow a human being. I wonder therefore about the atheists who devout themselves so highly to Richard Dawkins and others, are they truly atheists? <br /><br />Was this attempt of Pal-talk Rider an attempt to avoid embarresment or is this a new turn within the atheism community? <br /><br />Here is the chat:</strong><br /><br />rider3 came online at 12:43 PM<br />rider3: we cannot just leave them alone and hope they will leave the rest of the world alone<br />rider3: we know that is not what they have done or do<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: So were Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot<br />rider3: the problem there was too much belief not too little<br />rider3: they needed sceptics not believers<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: did Stalin have too mucn belief<br />rider3: those who believed in hikm did<br />rider3: if only there were fewer believers<br />rider3: we need more non believers<br />rider3: not more<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: so atheists following atheist leaders are wrong<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: do you have any atheist heroes<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: Richard Carrier<br />rider3: at least they are not following imaginary beings<br />rider3: dawkins<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: but they kill peoople<br />rider3: hitchins<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: so you believe in Dawkins<br />rider3: there are no non believer armies out there<br />rider3: armies need belief<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: Dawkins made a statement (I cant find it now) that we should control what parents teach their children home<br />rider3: there are no atheist suicide bombers<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: at that Christians are stupith and wicked<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: there have been atheist armies and there still are<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: North Korea<br />rider3: they follow an imaginary being<br />rider3: can that be mentally good<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: a third of the population or so in concentration camps<br />rider3: yes, too much belief in north korea<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: that is a atheist society for you<br />rider3: they believe in a beloved leader<br />rider3: it is a totally believer nation<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: every true atheist society has revealed bloodshead and attrocities<br />rider3: that is what you get with irrational belief<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: the Jacobites of the French revelution<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: Stalin, Mao, etc<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: its all been bloodsheads<br />rider3: there has never been an atheist society<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: and attrocities<br />rider3: yes#<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: there has, Communist Russia was a atheist society<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: so is China<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: and North Korea<br />rider3: god belief always leads to suppression and atrocities<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: I don't see that<br />rider3: yes. a beloved leader culture<br />rider3: not enough disbelief in china<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: every atheist society has a leader culture<br />rider3: they are all trained believers<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: in China people are getting tired of atheism<br />rider3: they need more disbelief<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: well, now they are becoming believers<br />rider3: they are moving from one control culture to another<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: last 30 years 80 million Chinese have become Christians<br />rider3: that is the chinese pattern<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: they are sick of atheism<br />rider3: you see, now they vhave another belief str4ucture<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: is that not the same in the WEst also<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: I would not say atheism is on the rise<br />rider3: and you know it will cause massive bloodshed<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: people are turning more into gnosticism <br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: or postmodernism<br />rider3: secularism is the way forward<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: its not gona happen<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: man needs the spiritual side<br />rider3: the modern western nations are all secualr nations<br />rider3: not run by belief<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: right now the West is turning back to what is spiritual<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: the west has been dried up of atheism<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: also atheism appear to be the most sad and boring people in the world<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: just look at dawkins<br />rider3: which western nation was atheist ?<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: did I say that<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: I said society is turning from atheism<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: did not say the society was atheistic<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: as a whole<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: France was once atheistic<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: the Jacobites<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: again bloodsheds<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: and attrocities<br />rider3: france was catholic<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: as usual<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: not under the jacobites<br />rider3: it was never atheist<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: priests and the church was persecuted<br />rider3: there has never been an atheist nation<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: they tried to creat an sort of atheist religion<br />rider3: they were and are, seculAR<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: there still are atheist nations<br />rider3: secular<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: North Korea is atheistic<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: so is China<br />rider3: name an atheist nation ?<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: North Korea<br />rider3: no it is a total believer nation<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: are you saying that North Korea is not atheistic<br />rider3: they have a god on earth<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: its an atheist nation<br />rider3: they are believers<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: believers in what<br />rider3: it is a believer nation with a god on earth<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: the foundation of the society is that there is not God<br />rider3: they have a beloved leader<br />rider3: with a beloved leaders son<br />rider3: ready to take over<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: ok, so following a human leader now makes you an atheist<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: that is interesting<br />rider3: the problem there is too much belief<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: sorry makes you a theist<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: so following Mao would make you a theist<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: right<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: following Stalin would make you a theist<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: right<br />rider3: mao is your god on earth<br />rider3: not a new concelt<br />rider3: the japanese had it for centuries<br />rider3: so didf the chinese<br />rider3: and many others<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: you have just moved the boundaries of atheism from belief in the supernatural to the adherance of a human leader<br />rider3: it is a common belief structure<br />rider3: i am speaking of belief<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: back to the real matter, do people and the government in North Korea believe in God or not<br />rider3: blind unthinkig belief<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: they don't so they are atheists<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: North Korean is an atheist society<br />rider3: whether of the non existent or the3 beloved leader type<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: simple<br />rider3: north korea is a gtotally believers nation<br />rider3: it has a god on earth<br />rider3: that too is a common believeer structure<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: you are stuck with the fact that atheists have committed the worsth attrocites of the last century, so you categories these government as being gods<br />rider3: as i have already pointedout<br />rider3: where ?<br />rider3: there has never been an atheist nation<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: atheism is merely absense of faith in God, it is not the absense of commitmentn to a government<br />rider3: they are believer nations<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: hence the atheist societies have committed terrible attrocities<br />rider3: atheists do not tend to blind belief<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: in fact the worst attrocities we have seen in modern times<br />rider3: there has never been an atheist nation<br />rider3: the worst atrocities are committed by believer nations<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: Dawkins wants us to go back to such a supressive society, I guess you are a beliver too<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: you are a believer<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: you belive in Dawkins<br />rider3: there has nevfer been an athesit nation<br />rider3: dawkins is a fact<br />rider3: belief is not required<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: Dawkins considers faith a diesese and wants the goverment to control Christian parents, sounds more like Hitler and Nazi Germany<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: so Dawkins is simply a fact you sound like a beliver<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: believers talk like that<br />rider3: talk to dawkins aboput it<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: I am just pointing out that your god on earth believes in supression<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: and persecution<br />rider3: shows him where he said he wants nazi like control<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: you are nothing better than the North Koreans<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: you would do the same<br />rider3: show him where he wants persecution<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: you would back up the same insanity<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: and Dawkins would literarly hail it<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: that is why atheism is dangerous<br />rider3: i would let every church and belief flourish<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: it has done nothing but bloodshed and supression<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: you would not<br />rider3: all they would have to do was prove that what they claimed to be true was true<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: believe me you would not<br />rider3: there has never been an atheist nation<br />rider3: the probloem is belief<br />rider3: not lack of it<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: ohhh man, there are still atheist nations<br />rider3: where ?<br />rider3: name one<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: you call them believers and then putt yourself in the same category<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: North Korea, do I have to repeat it<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: they kill believers in North Korea<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: because they are belivers<br />rider3: north korea is a believer nation<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: its an atheist nation<br />rider3: they have total belief<br />rider3: they vdo not allow non believers<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: they follow a man, they don't believe in God, they are atheist<br />rider3: it is a totallty believer nation<br />rider3: non believers are not allowed<br />rider3: they need more non believers<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: nice way to ran away from the mess atheisms has caused to the world, just blame them for being belivers<br />rider3: of course they are believers<br />rider3: you know they are<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: yeah they believe in a man, not God<br />rider3: it is too much belief that causes the problems<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: they are not theists<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: they are atheists<br />rider3: they need less belief<br />rider3: they have a god on earth<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: you are talking about societal change, very different matter, but they are still atheists<br />rider3: not a new concept of course<br />rider3: as i listed for you earlier<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: having a leader on earth does not make you a theist<br />rider3: atheists are not allowed<br />rider3: all must believe<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: not allowed in North Korea<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: oh come on<br />rider3: non believers is north korea woul;d have a very short life span<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: how about the West how scepticism runs the university systems<br />rider3: yes, non belief is far better<br />rider3: less fanaticism<br />rider3: no bombings from non believers<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: I study theology, do you know that non-believers run the theological departments and create the rules<br />rider3: far better<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: say that to Stalins Gulag<br />rider3: that is good news indeed<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: many Christians died in Gulag because they were Christians<br />rider3: they were beleivers<br />rider3: the nojn believers ended up in the hulags<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: who were belivers the Christians who died Gulag or those who deported them<br />rider3: not for the god on earth then you are a non believer<br />rider3: the believers will kill you<br />rider3: gods on earth are very common<br />rider3: and they need believers<br />rider3: vicious murderous believers<br />rider3: and they find them<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: so who were the believers in Gulag the Christians (who then must be the non-believers) who opposed the atheists (who were belivers) or the atheists who were non-believers but according to you believers who killed the belivers who were non-believers according to you<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: confused<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: I am very confused<br />rider3: they were3 all enemies of the god on earth and his believers<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: which three I only mentioned two groups<br />rider3: had there been more non believers it would not have happened<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: non believers you mean Christians<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: who opposed atheism<br />rider3: if you are in a gulag then you are an enemy of the god on earth by definition<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: no you are not you are simply placed in that hell by a atheist goverment that cares nothing about humanity, why should it<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: we are all just atoms anyway<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: anyway bro<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: I need to go<br />rider3: you opposed the god on earth and like all gods, you get punished<br />rider3: ok<br />Hogan Elijah Hagbard: may talk to you later<br />rider3: never follow gods is the lesson of the day<br />rider3: i will be aroundHogan Elijah Hagbardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06715947713008941795noreply@blogger.com0